Paul Heyman recently appeared on Jimmy Traina’s SI Media podcast for an interview covering all things pro wrestling. During the discussion, Heyman was asked if he was surprised how well the Bloodline Storyline has turned out:
“With all false humility aside, no, I’m not. The reason why is because of my belief in Roman Reigns as a performer. When we made the decision, and Roman Reigns and I talked about working with each other for several years, and the time was never right. I was too attached to the hip of Brock Lesnar, and rightfully so because we kept on elevating each other and we were needed for each other at the time. Roman Reigns was still finding his own way and still telling his story to the audience because to get to where he is now as the tribal chief, he had to have weathered all the storms, fought all the battles, and he needed to be more seasoned. He needed to be older than the Big Dog Roman Reigns.”
“So the time was right and it was in the middle of COVID. This is where we had virtual audiences and everyone looked at that as a restriction. In my first conversation with Roman Reigns about how to become not only the number one superstar in the entire industry, not just WWE, but also to become the most compelling character on television itself, the first thing he said was, ‘Wow, what an opportunity we have to do things differently.’ Right there I knew we hit gold because we weren’t looking at, ‘Well, there’s no fans live in the arena.’ We were looking at, ‘Wow, we can actually put the camera right in the ring with us. We can whisper things and have the camera mics pick it up. We didn’t have to talk into the microphone at all times to deliver the message.’ All the things that you are given as brilliant opportunities, when there’s 20, 30, 40, 50,000 people in an arena or a stadium, the flip side of that is the intimacy when there’s no one there, and how you can position a camera literally right here to the face and at the last second of the show, turn into the camera and just say, ‘Acknowledge me’ and whisper it and have everyone hear you.”
“So long answer even longer, I’m not surprised because from the moment Roman Reigns and I got a chance to work together, the entire goal was to present the most compelling, the most riveting, the most forward thinking character on television itself, let alone in professional wrestling, sports entertainment, WWE.”
Heyman also commented on Sami Zayn becoming part of the storyline:
“I didn’t imagine Sami Zayn becoming a massive part of this when Sami Zayn was becoming a massive part of. To his enormous credit, Sami Zayn seized the moment. We’d give him crumbs of a segment and he would just turn it into a moment that he had to connect with the audience with what I think has ended up becoming the most endearing character that we’ve presented in decades, if not ever.”
“As great of a talker as Sami Zayn is, and he is a magnificent talker, I think Sami resonates with the audience, just because Roman Reigns will turn to him and lean in on him about something, and Sami gets that hush puppy face, and that sad look on his face, and the camera zooms in on the sad look on Sami’s face, and everybody feels for him. He just endears himself to the audience. They absolutely fall in love with him and his plight and his pursuit of acceptance, which I think is a big part of this is that everyone can relate to the pursuit of acceptance, and that was the tale of Sami Zayn. He just did it so well, and did it so brilliantly, and with such authenticity, and with genuine angst on his face and pain when spoken down to, that people just felt for him, and as you know, it’s not just constrained to WWE. In any form of television, movies, Broadway plays, if you get the audience to feel for you, you know, touchdown, victory. It’s everything that a writer, director, producer, and performer seeks.”
He talked about who is creatively responsible for The Bloodline:
“You know the old expression that it takes a team? It certainly has with us. There are a lot of people who have worked really hard to make this work. You know, it kind of all filters through Roman Reigns’ feel. There are several people that come to me to present things to Roman, and then Roman and I will talk about it and come back with either something that fits into their narrative, or we would hope we can perhaps enhance it or put it in our own words, or come back with, ‘That doesn’t work for us, but what about this’, and then start a different process in that we’re bouncing ideas off of them.”
“When I say them, you know, the thing with Sami started when Vince was still running creative. So it started under Vince McMahon’s creative regime. It was a seamless transition to Paul Levesque. There are times where we’re sitting in a room and it’s Roman, and it’s me, and it’s the Usos, and one of the Usos will just say, ‘You know what would be really good with Sami?’, and it’s, ‘Oh, my God. Why aren’t we doing that already?’ You will find things that come from the Usos that would shock you just how great they are. There’s Michael Hayes, and Michael Hayes has an understanding about telling a story within the body of a match that very few in history could ever claim to be on par with. The SmackDown writing team, which is led by Ryan Callahan, who is an unsung hero in what we’ve put together. There’s Michael Kirschenbaum, who you never hear about, you know, Kirsch as we call him, who on a week to week basis, along with a gentleman named Chad Barbash, and another name’s Zack Hyatt. These are all people that will come and sit in the room with us, or sit in a locker room with us, or on Roman’s bus, or in a conference call. We’ll throw around ideas and you know, ‘Hey, what resonates with you? Do you have teenage kids? Well, this is a story of acceptance. What tales are they telling from the cafeteria at lunchtime in high school?’ It’s really a team and a lot of unsung heroes, a lot of people that you don’t read about online because they very intentionally keep their names out of the headlines who have worked their asses off to put this all together.”
Regarding The Rock and WrestleMania 39, Heyman said:
“I never spoke to Dwayne about this year’s WrestleMania. I always heard his name being thrown around. I couldn’t imagine with his schedule, with his promotional schedule, with the launch of the XFL, with all the projects that he has on his plate, that he would be able to take the time to get back into what we would call ring shape. Aesthetically, does anybody in Hollywood even compare it to him? No. Could he run a marathon? I don’t know. Maybe. I’m sure he has great cardio, but cardio itself and cardio in the ring and being in ring shape are two completely different things. I’ve seen great mixed martial arts fighters who would have no problem doing 15 rounds of sparring or five rounds in an MMA cage, get into a wrestling ring and within two minutes of hitting the ropes, they can catch their breath. It’s just a different rhythm. It’s just a completely different physical toll that it takes. It’s not like riding a bicycle. It’s not something you can just get back into. It requires you to get back into a specific level of conditioning that is exclusive to the sports entertainment world.”
“Could Dwayne Johnson have come back and put together a really classic, very memorable 15-minute match with Roman Reigns for this year’s WrestleMania without going through that training? I bet you he could. I bet you just based on his knowledge of the ring, his supreme psychology which made him such a huge star, the people that we have around us to diagram such a confrontation, and just the fact that Dwayne will push himself beyond his own limits, we could have had a great 15-minute match. But I don’t think anybody would have paid to see the main event of WrestleMania of a fantasy match-up, of a dream match, between the Tribal Chief Roman Reigns and The Rock himself, I don’t think anybody would wanted to pay to see a 15-minute match. I think people would pay and expect to see, and rightfully expect to see, a far longer story be told in a most exciting, in an A-plus, plus, plus, plus level fashion. There was just no way that he would have been able to deliver, and I don’t think that he would ever want to disappoint what we end up calling the WWE Universe.”
Heyman was also asked if he’ll take a break from WWE TV if Reigns takes a break after SummerSlam:
“Well, I mean, we’re talking a lot of hypotheticals here. I’m firmly embedded in the portrayal of the Special Counsel and the Wise Man to the Tribal Chief Roman Reigns. I’m sure there are things that I can do in my free time, should there ever be a time that we take some time off.”
Regarding why he is not currently doing a podcast, he said:
“The right deal. The market is hotter today than it was yesterday. The market will be hotter tomorrow than it is today.
If he could do a podcast while working in WWE:
“Of course I could. I offer the benefit of a lot of decades in and around the industry and access, and sometimes unfettered access to, you know, the true giants and pioneers and the movers and the shakers of the industry. So with that, you know, there’s a lot to offer. Again, it’s all about the right deal. That’s a venture that I would be obsessed with to make it the best one out there. I hate the term one of the best. It drives me out of my frickin mind for multiple reasons. It’s the old expression, you know, ‘In the dog race of life, if you’re not in first, the view is all the same.’ One of the best to me doesn’t mean that you’re the best. It could mean top five. It could mean top 25. The thing that I always tell people is, if your significant other turns to you in bed and says. ‘You’re one of the best lovers I’ve ever had’, I don’t think you’re going to be flattered by that.”
You can listen to the complete podcast below:
(h/t to WrestlingNews.co for the transcription)
